Rick van de Poll: Rick your thoughts. m from a weed family Automotive on store Street in Concord is serving the Concord area families automotive needs since 1995. And boy it was big it had to be at least 200 pounds the thing was you and and it just made a little bit of noise and it was gone. 10 things to do in NH this weekend: Dartmouth Dance, Hamilton De Holanda & more, Turkish restaurant in the Upper Valley aims to help those affected by recent earthquakes, RFK Jr. tells NH crowd hes considering a presidential run, Epping woman pleads guilty to threatening Michigan election official in 2020. John if you're still on the line here I was going to I don't. Peter Biello: This is the exchange on an HD PR fine Peter Biello and today we're talking with folks who can tell us about the mysterious elusive mountain line and whether or not it is actually here in New Hampshire. New Hampshire Fish and Game Department says there's no proof. Give us a call if you have a question or comments or story about perhaps seeing a mountain lion here in New Hampshire. This is not the same as saying that there has never been a mountain lion seen in New Hampshire. We speculate they dont want us to screw up tourism we dont know whats going on. That's pretty elaborate. I tracked cats and all the western states. Sue Morse: The big cat really commands the utmost respect not so much fear but fascination. Mountain Lion report and as a biologist for the state that's a situation where if he said to me what did I see. Patrick Tate: Same here in New Hampshire too. Some are included in lists of mountains, such as the Appalachian Mountain Club (AMC) list of the Hundred Highest peaks of New England, or the . And today we're talking about the mysterious elusive mountain line with folks who know something about it. As recently as 2011 there was one young male mountain lion that cruised all the way from the black hills of South Dakota, up over the Great Lakes, down through New Yorkgetting spotted all. Peter Biello: This is NHK PR Good morning and HP are summer car raffle is back and now's the time to get your early bird tickets. Just one quick point I think I think when we we talk about these conspiracy theories the real story is that fish and game is an agency that that is short on budget and staff. People were calling the New Hampshire Fish and Game director's office saying why are you dragging your feet on this. So here in New Hampshire when a person turns in something that the Department believes is possible mountain lion and believes it should be investigated further. brings a lot of. Peter Biello: So Patrick today Fish and Game no downward pressure on you to deny the existence at all costs of mountain lions here in New Hampshire. It's not a skinny rope like tail like a housecat. Is this kind of a typical story. 50 feet above the most. The Connecticut Mountain Lion is the best documented wild Mountain Lion in New England. So. And they asked me about the tail which I just did not remember that tail out of that whole experience. But are there mountain lions living in New Hampshire? Patrick Tate: I don't believe it is. The tail leave is a giveaway but not everybody gets to see the tail. And so maybe before I go to you recommend I ask you Patrick Tate is the standard too high. So try to take photographs if you see something like this. Mountain lions leave a lot of sign. I mean that so many of them are false sightings we. WMUR NH Chronicle Mountain Lions in NH Part I and Part II. Mountain lion or cat running across. Residents believe cougars still roam New Hampshire's forests. I mean there was this one lady I remember and tough tomorrow. Peter Biello: Listeners give us a call if you have a question or a story of a sighting 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. Thanks for calling. There's always been physical evidence to prove those situations like hair or fur scat hair prints pictures of the animal print scat hair. I found a second scat scent both to him. The unheralded hero of Apollo John Hubble the man who knew the way to the moon. And I just said I saw I saw they from behind the shoulder all the way past the long tail. I'm Peter Biello. Really appreciate you guys being here as well. You need you need either a really good photograph or you need you know fresh scat that can be sent to a lab out West that can they can be identified there. You know you have to have a license and it's hard to get that license a license to own a mountain lion. You need a permit to have that. Tate said that while a mountain lion sighting in New Hampshire isn't likely, it's not impossible. I saw the tail end of a literally from behind the shoulder The Long Tail mountain lion crossing the highway going from Password to often Village downtown. But you won't find evidence of their existence in paw prints in the snow or a deer carcass in a tree. So. Peter Biello: Mm hmm. They create these big latrines that are very obvious. Rick van de Poll: Well the mountain lion of course has been sort of an enigma in the wildlife suite for years and years. Let's go now to to Kyle in Keene I believe Kyle is this Kyle Jarvis from the Keene Sentinel a former reporter and former reporter. There's just one subspecies of North American mountain lion. Mark Elbroch doesnt think so. And so so with their limited staff and limited budget that is that is more and more limited every year because you know fewer people are buying hunting and fishing licenses. Peter Biello: From New Hampshire Public Radio I'm Peter Biello in for Lark Knoy and this is the exchange. I saw that had this giant the bobcat had this giant sweeping which is John Bobcat don't have big sweeping tails. And trying to figure out the little pieces to identify him so I bring up the names the differences but the appearances can be confusing for some. There wasn't a distinct subspecies the North American mountain lion is all is all one species and then you can find a genetically distinct South American subspecies. Well within there. Okay. Well Is DNA the most reliable means we have of identifying whether or not what we saw is actually a mountain lion. The second one was not only fresh but when I actually put my hand on it it was you know smelled like cat and I it's there's no denying a fresh mountain lions get if you can tell it every story that KOAT. And it was unmistakable. Mountain Lions in New Hampshire-Fact or Fiction 3,207 views Jul 31, 2019 78 Dislike Share Save New Hampshire Fish and Wildlife 634 subscribers During my thirty-one career at the New. John you're on the air. Fish and Game then deny the evidence. From involving members in projects as local as cleaning up an area park or as far-reaching as bringing sight to the world's blind, Lions clubs have always . On a dirt road. So this whole illegal pet trade black market pro trade thing does does exist in a situation like that can happen. In fact, Pat Tate concedes that hes been told of sightings from folks that he considers to be very credible, very woods savvypeople who know what a bobcat looks likebut those folks have never snapped a good photo or found a good track. Peter Biello: Today on the program Patrick Tate New Hampshire Fish and Game Wildlife biologist and far better project leader Sam Evans Brown host of an HP podcast outside in which is about the natural world and how we use it. And I I have this great text history of New Hampshire game and fir bears and I think by Helen Silver who used to work for fish and game and she sort of I kind eyes this animal in one of the quotes from 1892 stating that the catamaran was the most ferocious of all the wild beasts of New Hampshire his great size strength and agility of movement together with his formidable weapons rendered him the terror both of man and beast. Okay. Pat do they typically just move around a lot. HOLDERNESS, N.H. (AP) Two of the known mountain lions in New Hampshire have spent their 15 years in close proximity to humans. For over 38 years the Saddleback Mountain Lions have offered people a chance to give back to their community. There were several sightings in CT over the last few months. It's you know I recognized their report and. So when we hear mountain lion there's also cougar there's wild cat there's Bobcat which is not a mountain lion maybe Patrick could you sort of spell out the different terms which are synonymous and which are completely different animals. Thank you very much for being here. Patrick Tate: My line being a large predator a cat watch ambush his prey animal that hasn't been. I have no doubt that there are mountain lion roaming New Hampshire. To date most of the pictures that have been sent in have been bobcats and other species Ive received pictures of house cats. So hey, just me shooting from the hip, maybe there are a couple mountain lions skulking about. Like why would you want one wildlife. Sam Evans-Brown: So Tim so this cat's been been referenced a couple of times I think we should talk about it specifically lay the whole story out for folks who haven't heard the story because it's actually I think really indicative of a lot of stuff for talking about. Do cougars live in New England? I believe I saw one that's fine and I'm not looking for an immediate story. Let's look for other evidence. I have one that's more elaborate than that. It doesn't happen as much anymore. From "History of New Hampshire Game and Furbearers" by Helenette Silver, Research Clerk, NH Fish and Game Dept. I think that you probably are. I would say that there's going to be the truth in here somewhere. Yes. 1957. There's no attraction. The brother and sister big cats have lived . I've collected scat samples I've got several in my collection. New Hampshire Public Radio | Mountain Lion | Squam Lakes Natural Science Center All exhibit and hiking trails are CLOSED for the season. Join as a $8 per month sustainer and get our brand-new owl umbrella! So I know it's another unconfirmed report but you string enough of these together. Thank you. And it's not really strong. Caller: I cannot recall or see the tail in my in my image of it. support for an HBO who comes from you our listener Sam from advanced in you a local New Hampshire nonprofit specializing in college student loans and student refinancing options. Now Bobcat is a completely different species. We'll be right back. Sam Evans-Brown: So I just had two thoughts which is that we hear a lot of these stories and all of us here have heard these stories. Caller: Hey guys how you doing. 235 or nhandy@ledgertranscript.com. It's listed as population of least concern. But you won't find evidence of their existence in paw prints in the snow or a deer carcass in a tree. And so a mountain lion is actually quite large right. We we hear that there is allegedly a government conspiracy to deny the existence of mountain lions here in New Hampshire so I guess a local government conspiracy. We live around Cold Springs Campground and it was undeniably a mountain lion. Yet this young male traveled about 1,800 miles. Post your sightings and NH photos here! If you go on YouTube and search mount lion Pat you can see people patent their hundred pound kiddie like its regular mascot cat. Residents from Bedford to Berlin have been reporting sightings for years. Sam Evans-Brown: And second the evidence required is is you know pretty pretty tough to gather. So there is definitely no downward pressure by anyone. Peter Biello: Wow. And just one more note about this danger question when even when you look at the states that have extended populations stable populations of mountain lions attacks are relatively rare. You saw what you saw. There have been several sightings of mountain lions in New Hampshire recently. Can we go to the site. It all used to be based on measurable physical traits color, skull size, paw size, etc but now its based on whether an animal can be shown to be genetically distinct from others. Kyle I think about Rick Tate wants to jump in here. Sam Evans-Brown: Pretty well I was going to say it is nice to hear about how to identify the facial markings but probably I'd being a to identify the tracks is probably the more useful useful tool that one can have in their tool box. Despite numerous reports, the NH Fish and Game Department continues to have no physical evidence of mountain lion presence in the state. We're not in the woods. I just saw the head and the tail that was leaving. And Rick Van de Poll naturalist and founder of ecosystem management consultants of New England. The states never denied mountain lions are here, and theyve never admitted mountain lions are here. There are mountain lion in Massachusetts. What's interesting about Bobcats is here in the Northeast we have some very large bobcats. So for me as a person who's had the Bobcats right off my grits similar carries sticks to a bobcat The Long Tail obviously very different but those facial markings were overlapping for me. So it's there was no question in my mind. Your support makes this news available to everyone. N.H.'s Fish and Game department says there's no proof mountain lions live in the state, yet residents from Bedford to Berlin have been reporting sightings for years. There'd be there'd be all sorts of you know basically a lot of hassle required if that were to happen. So one thing I'll add we're talking about natural dispensers but talking with the conservation officer in the 1980s they recall going to a residence telling a person you can live here but your mountain lion can't. Our guests today Patrick Tate New Hampshire Fish and Game Wildlife biologist Sam Evans Brown host of an HP podcast outside in. 44-H Links. Caller: Yeah I hadn't experienced blastoff fall so this was around September and I was driving from Webster into Concord on Horse Hill Road and anybody in the area would know I was right near the Red Barn and all of a sudden this animal jumps out of the woods and it bounded across the road in about two two giant leaps and stopped in the field just on the other side. Fish and Wildlife Service decided all of the cougars, pumas, and mountain lions in the country are actually the same species, and that species hasnt had a breeding population anywhere near the Northeast for at least 70 years. We'll hear from her periodically through the show. So what those ranges. Caller: Well I think Patrick I recognized your name. So yeah as far as wildlife species that put deer and trees know there aren't any others that I know of that put deer in trees just just humans might be responsible for that. Michael Brindley is our program manager our producers our Jessica Hunt and Christina Phillips and our theme music was composed by Bob Lord. (Cue the X-Files music: The Government is denying the cougars exist!) This decision was primarily for nerdy phylogeny reasons, though, because the eastern cougar probably never existed. Peter Biello: So Rick seems like you agree that the tail is a big giveaway whether or not it's a mountain lion Absolutely. Now that to me seemed to indicate that they had done the secondary workup that in my opinion proved the existence of probably a disperse or possibly from South Dakota like the one in 2011. BUT THAT SAID, Id love to be proven wrong. Long before NASA was asked to put a man on the moon one engineer had already figured out how to get there. You're on the air. Good morning guys. Do we have native species that could have exhibited this type of behavior leaving leaving a deer carcass up in a tree. About two years ago I was at the Laconia airport on the way home from the airport and there's a big lake on one side called Lily Pond. I mean so what what is the practical change that it would bring to New Hampshire if any. Email exchange it an HP fraud org or give us a call 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. This is a machine-generated transcript, and may contain errors. And then just up behind it you know at about 11 o'clock on one side and whatever that would be on the other side it's black. But I do think that it's appropriate that a fishing game agency would recognize verifiable proof if they could. Mike Guyton pressure was almost Greyhound like very muscular large back legs on it and the coloration on it was almost an orange brownish orange color and so I stop and I look at this thing in the field and as the animal looks at me the face was very chiseled definitely not a bobcat. You know interactions are pretty unusual. Give today. The Eastern mountain lion is extinct in the eastern United States and Canada, but in 2011, a . Which goes back to the Connecticut Connecticut cat and what not. As recently as 2011 there was one young male mountain lion that cruised all the way from the black hills of South Dakota, up over the Great Lakes, down through New Yorkgetting spotted all along the waykilled a beaver near the Quabbin Reservoir in Central Massachusetts, left behind prints and DNA at that site, and then was hit by a car in Connecticut. So I want to start the program with a comment from someone who is not in the studio with us today. Have a photo. Mountain lions don't usually travel more than 100 miles from where they are born. There's a lot of photographs that you can see that it's very clearly a tabby cat that someone has thought was a mountain lion. Rick van de Poll: Rick van de Poll so I was a non-believer as well. But if you do if you think you're looking at a wild Puma their tail is very thick and especially in the winter is very thick and ponderous looking. OK. Rick van de Poll: Rick and I would add that if a mountain lion male takes up residence and successfully finds a female as pets there's gonna be a lot more evidence there will be like deer carcasses up in trees and territorial marking and claw marks and tracks and it you know dispersal is gonna be very tough to see or observed but residential parrots a totally different story. Patrick Tate: And there's one other way to model that is the same animal. We'll also hear your stories if you have them again. But my experience was that the majority of these accounts could not be taken lightly. Peter Biello: Nice to be here. And they were using all the habitat. He writes As a farmer I come across many outdoorsman looking to hunt our property had a conversation with one who believed very strongly that we had mountain lions in New Hampshire. When you talk about a bobcat Bobcat maybe 80 90 pounds and then a mountain lion could be between 130 and 180 pounds. Right. Don't miss your chance to win three two thousand dollar gas gift cards at any station of your choice not to mention the grand prize twenty five thousand dollars toward a new car. I didn't see him online. John Holt's ideas were at first dismissed but he refused to be silent. Sandy Hodskins, owner of West Meadow Farm in Bradford, New Hampshire, took time from shoveling Wednesday to enjoy the snow with her horse, West Wind. Rick van de Poll: Well I didn't. If you missed part of today's program listen to the exchange. In my New Hampshire career I have written several, and seen at least 20, stories along the lines of "local person thinks they saw a mountain lion but there's no actual evidence aside from. GAP MOUNTAIN LIONS CLUB Fitzwilliam, New Hampshire (USA) District 44-N . HOLDERNESS, N.H. (AP) Two of the known mountain lions in New Hampshire have spent their 15 years in close proximity to humans. I've seen him in the woods and that was not a bobcat but I was looking at. And that's this morning at 10:00 here on NH PR. Some argue that it's a leap of faith. Peter Biello: So let's say Rick that it was confirmed that there that there are mountain lines here in New Hampshire. All of that remains unanswered but it is an extremely interesting question. They used to roam the entire continent, but have become extinct in most US states. Many people in New Hampshire have claimed to have seen mountain lions. Tonight, Sean McDonald investigates,. So here we have you know a very qualified biologist who who found a print took a plaster cast found a scat send it to a university. Think you've seen a mountain lion. It was really muscular looking cat I mean is that like a side angle to me. He says when youve got a mountain lion in town, its kinda obvious. By Eric Orff. If you believe you have seen a mountain lion and want to report it to NH Fish and Game, please contact the Wildlife Division at (603) 271-2461 or wildlife@wildlife.nh.gov to request an observation report form. Caller: So I've been telling this story for five years or so and very few people believe me. And a lot of people around the county airport have seen a lot of pilots coming in said they saw huge. The big cat has been extinct here since the mid-1800s. These young males are tracking looking for mates and if they don't find a mate they just keep moving and moving and moving. I'm sorry go ahead you're on the air. However if if and when it does happen it takes up a lot of resources looking at that situation and identifying what's going on because when you start out you don't know it's a hoax. Maps of Trapping Take by Town 1994 to 2004. The big cat has been extinct at least the eastern mountain lion has been extinct here since the mid 80s hundreds. I was at the Sentinel as a reporter there for about four years and during that time I probably wrote close to a half dozen stories or so on this topic including a lengthy feature at one point that in which I spoke to several people from around the banana region claimed to have seen mountain lions that at one time or another. Chapter X, Predators, Panther (Mountain Lion) From History of NH Game and Furbearers by Helenette Silver, Research Clerk, NH Fish and Game Dept. So one thing I'd point out is we've been talking about situations with no evidence a number of them come in with photographs and yet what they fit what they description of the animal they saw and by the way I got a picture of what I saw. 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. The most common areas to see mountain lions in Arizona are in places of rocky and mountainous terrain. Mike you're on the air. Patrick Tate: While a juvenile not a juvenile I guess if you want nodes to the base of the tail for juvenile that wouldn't be small at all. Caller: I got home to my wife that a gene that you should have seen the cat. Join as a $8 per month sustainer and get our brand-new owl umbrella! Peter Biello: Yeah some of what she was saying sounds like it would require getting pretty close or at least having a nice zoom lens right Sam like. Sam Evans-Brown: Well first I want to sort of explain why what the theory is but then also throw a bit of cold water on it because I don't think there's much much logic behind it but essentially is that if fish and game were to acknowledge that there was a population of Mount lions in the state there's a chance that something like a listing under the federal Endangered Species Act might happen and then there'd be you know some they'd have to put a plan in place to protect the species there'd be you know restrictions put on development. But you've done some reporting on this. Want to report a Mountain Lion sighting in New Hampshire? For all the men out there that don't realize it. But you won't find evidence of their existence in paw prints in the snow or a deer carcass in a tree. Sam Evans-Brown: But I mean the video I had been sent was you know a recording of a animal growling but it was in slow motion and when I asked the person why is this in slow motion the denied that it was so there's a lot of weird stuff that happens in regards to people claiming they've seen they've seen these things. I actually been interviewed a couple of times by reporters and with all due respect for the media you know facts aren't always communicated correctly. These were normal everyday folks. Peter Biello: Well Mike thanks very much for sharing your story. Patrick Tate: It became a very interesting investigation over time because it started becoming. I mean I that said I've lived out west for nine years. Chartered: 1973 . You know perhaps poke around where you saw it and see if you can find a track. M from Tree Hill author series presenting Diane lay back. This is the exchange. But you can continue the conversation on Facebook or at our Web site and HP Borg. So and so the idea that they can follow up on every individual sighting is just crazy right. Me Im willing to believe its possible that there are some out there. For instance, Floridas wildlife officials have a similar ghost cat: the black panther. Which brings us to the next question, what are the odds that some of these reported sightings (which, when I posted about this on twitter, I immediately started to get as well) are actually people seeing a mountain lion?
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