The debate, titled "Happiness: Marxism vs. Capitalism," pitted Jordan Peterson against Slavoj iek, two of the West's reigning public intellectuals. and our imblazintwo 4 yr. ago clear these are coherent thoughts from the same thinker. Happiness is a confused notion, basically it relies on the subjects inability or unreadiness to fully confront the consequences of his / her / their desire. ridiculing the form. people consumed the debate. statement. "If you have a good theory, forget about the reality. Cookie Notice I can see no threat to free creativity in this program on the contrary, I saw health care and education and so on as enabling me to focus my life on important creative issues. Somehow hectoring mobs have managed to turn him into an icon of all they are not. matters: meaning, truth, freedom. EL DEBATE DEL SIGLO: Slavoj iek y Jordan Peterson Disfrut la discusin filosfica entre Michel Onfay y Alain Badiou , pesos pesados del pensamiento alternativo, y qued satisfecho. Both rejected happiness as a primary goal for individuals and societies. Refresh the. If Peterson was an ill-prepared prof, iek was a columnist stitching together a bunch of 1,000-worders. Peterson noted at the outset that he'd set a personal milestone: StubHub tickets to the debate were going for more money than Maple Leafs playoff ticketsa big deal in Toronto. Another issue is that it's hard to pin down what communism is Here is the original video extracted from https://www.jordanvsslavojdebate.com (livestream.com HLS source) using ffmpeg from Akamai CDN with the original audio and custom CC transcribed. The twentieth century left was defined by its opposition to the truth fundamental tendencies of modernity: the reign of capital with its aggressive market competition, the authoritarian bureaucratic state power. This is NOT a satire/meme sub. In our human universe, power, in the sense of exerting authority, is something much more mysterious, even irrational. In his turn, the self-proclaimed pessimist Zizek didnt always stick the larger economic topics, and did not want to be called communist. In such times of urgency, when we know we have to act but dont know how to act, thinking is needed. Zizek makes many interesting points. The rest of the debate was (if memory serves) also interesting, but it gets even He said things like Marx thought the proletariat was good and the bourgeoisie was evil. Error type: "Forbidden". The first and sadly predominate reaction is the one of protected self-enclosure The world out there is in a mess, lets protect ourselves by all sorts of walls. Elements of a formal debate. Conservative thinkers claim that the origin of our crisis is the loss of our reliance on some transcendent divinity. Born in France, Delphine Minoui lived in Tehran for 10 years to understand her grandparents country from the inside. Did we really move too much in the direction of equality? In Stalinism, precisely they were not kept apart, while already in Ancient Greece they knew they had to be kept apart, which is why the popular way was even combined with lottery often. Really? But it did reveal one telling commonality. Other than that, multiple commentators (one, two) pointed that the "Debate To cite this article: Ania Lian (2019): The Toronto Debate: Jordan Peterson and Slavoj iek on Ethics and Happiness, The European Legacy, DOI: 10.1080/10848770.2019.1616901 Its all anyone can do at this point. Tonight, "philosopher" Slavoj iek will debate "psychologist" Jordan Peterson in Toronto, ostensibly on the subject of Capitalism vs. Marxism. His Peterson retreats into the integrity of character and Judeo-Christian values as he sees them. [7], Peterson said he could meet "any time, any place"[1][4][8] to debate and it was announced on 28 February 2019 that the debate was scheduled for 19 April 2019. The people who laugh might do it that way, he replied. Take what is perhaps the ultimate rogue state Congo. Happiness: Capitalism vs. Marxism: the Peterson and iek Debate, I am releasing this transcript free of charge to best facilitate free use discussion of, the debate and the two authors. In totalitarian states, competencies are determined politically. Similarly, he's crusading against Last week, Peterson announced that he and Zizek would be meeting on stage at the Sony Centre in Toronto for a debate called "Happiness: Capitalism v. Marxism." Apparently the two men are. The time has come to step back and interpret it. I think a simple overview of the situation points in the opposite direction. Todays China combines these two features in its extreme form strong, totalitarian state, state-wide capitalist dynamics. The pathological element is the husbands need for jealousy as the only way for him to sustain his identity. something wrong was said therein, you ought to engage the content rather than First by admitting we are in a deep mess. The Peterson-iek encounter was the ultra-rare case of a debate in 2019 that was perhaps too civil. : Just a few words of introduction. Through this renouncing of their particular roots, multi-cultural liberals reserve for themselves the universal position: gracefully soliciting others to assert their particular identify. April 20, 2019. The mere dumb presence of the celebrities on the stage mattered vastly more than anything they said, naturally. The two generally agreed on. Peterson: Otherwise, the creative types would sit around and see them again. First, of all, the commons of external nature, threatened by pollution, global warming and so on. talking about wherever he felt like that was tenuously related rather than In this sense, the image of Donald Trump is also a fetish, the last thing a liberal sees before confronting actual social tensions. attacking the manifesto isn't perhaps attacking Communism or even Marxism as its live commentary is quite funny. It has been said of the debate that " nothing is a greater waste of time ." Tickets to the livestream are $14.95, and admission to the venue itself was running as high as $1,500. In intellectual circles, the recent debate of the century between the Canadian psychologist Jordan Peterson and Slovenian philosopher Slavoj Zizek was a real heavyweight bout. By Tom Bartlett April 4, 2019 If you want tickets for the forthcoming showdown between Jordan Peterson and Slavoj Zizek, which will be held later this month in Toronto, better act fast: There. I cannot but notice the irony of how Peterson and I, the participants in this duel of the century, are both marginalised by the official academic community. He sees the rejections of some systemic failures of capitalism onto external It was in this opening argument that Zizek effectively won the debate to the extent it was a debate at all. So, how to act? Look at Bernie Sanders program. So, the term Cultural Marxism plays that of the Jewish plot in anti-Semitism. T. S. Eliot, the great conservative, wrote, quote what happens when a new work of art is created is something that happens simultaneously to all the work of art which preceded it. They were a vague and not particularly informed (by his own admission) reading of The Communist Manifesto. I did see the debate of the century, the debate of our century. We have to find some No his conservatism is a post-modern performance, a gigantic ego trip. His charge against Peterson's argument is followed with how he thinks Zizek At least Marxism is closed off now that Marx [, : Thank you. The Peterson-iek encounter was the ultra-rare case of a debate in 2019 that was perhaps too civil. Studebaker wrote that "Zizek read a bizarre, meandering, canned speech which had very little to do with anything Peterson said or with the assigned topic. Instead they often engage in self-destructive behavior. A renunciation of pleasure can easily turn in pleasure of renunciation itself. Are you also ready to affirm that Hitler was our enemy because his story was not heard? Peterson is neither a racist nor a misogynist. With anti-Semitism, we are approaching the topic of telling stories. From todays experience, we should rather speak to Steven Weinbergs claim that while without religion good people would have been doing good things and bad people bad things, only religion can make good people do bad things. In Peterson's defense, he did manage to stay much closer to the actual topic of the debate, while Zizek jumped wildly between a dizzying number of subjects. On the Zizek-Peterson 'debate' Some folks have been complaining that the debate was disappointing because it wasn't a debate, or because the debaters don't have sufficient intellectual. But market success is also not innocent and neutral as a regulatory of the social recognition of competencies. Zizek Peterson Debate Transcript. He gave a minor history of the French critical theorists who transposed categories of class oppression for group oppression in the 1960s. Because the left doesn't have its own house in order", "Is 'cultural Marxism' really taking over universities? Forced marriages and homophobia is ok, just as long as they are limited to another country which is otherwise fully included in the world market. So, let me begin by bringing together the three notions from the title Happiness, Communism, Capitalism in one exemplary case China today. El denominado "Debate del siglo" entre el filsofo y socilogo esloveno Slavoj iek y el psiclogo canadiense Jordan Peterson, fue uno de los eventos intelectuales de mayor trascendencia del ltimo tiempo. Why would the proletariat be more capable of leading? First, a brief introductory remark. [, moderator, president of Ralston College, Doctor Stephen Blackwood. interrupts himself to add "I will finish immediately" before finishing the joke. Another summary of the Peterson/iek debate. I always thought that neoliberalism is a fake term. He acknowledged that unrestricted capitalism can cause its own problems and tends to make the rich richer, but to him the poor are also better off financially under such an arrangement. Ideology, Logos & Belief with Transliminal Media . Peterson opens with a 30-minutes speech where he criticizes the communist White, left liberals love to denigrate their own culture and claim euro-centrism for our evils. She observed in a recent critical note that in the years since the movement began it deployed an unwavering obsession with the perpetrators. They seemed to believe that the academic left, whoever that might be, was some all-powerful cultural force rather than the impotent shrinking collection of irrelevances it is. Zizek will suit up for Team M and Peterson will wear the "C" on his hometown jersey. We are spontaneously really free. [16][17] iek was also critical of the multiculturalist liberals who espouse identity politics and that Western countries should rather fix the situation in immigrants' home countries than accept them. One of the most stupid wisdoms and theyre mostly stupid is An enemy is just a story whose story you have not heard. So, you know the market is already limited but not in the right way, to put it naively. Get counterintuitive, surprising, and impactful stories delivered to your inbox every Thursday. In our daily lives, we pretend to desire things which we do not really desire, so that ultimately the worst thing that can happen is to get what we officially desire. [5] He also criticized Peterson's discussion of "cultural Marxism", stating that "his crazy conspiracy theory about LGBT+ rights and #MeToo as the final offshoots of the Marxist project to destroy the West is, of course, ridiculous. This is I think now comes the problematic part for some of you maybe the problem with political correctness. Good evening and welcome to the Sony Center for Performing Arts. Far from pushing us too far, the Left is gradually losing its ground already for decades. Slavoj iek, psychoanalytic philosopher, cultural critic, and Hegelian Marxist. Neither can face the reality or the future. There are two teams, each consisting of two or three speakers. Orthodoxy, by G. K. Chesterton. I encourage you to watch the video or read the transcript Slavoj Zizek and Jordan Peterson debate on the concept of Happiness: Capitalism vs Marxism. Peterson blamed cultural Marxism for phenomena like the movement to respect gender-neutral pronouns which, in his view, undermines freedom of speech. Debate is a process that involves formal discourse on a particular topic, often including a moderator and audience. It made me wonder about the rage consuming all public discussion at the moment: are we screaming at each other because we disagree or because we do agree and we cant imagine a solution? Iran is a land of contradictions where oppression and freedom uneasily coexist. So, I dont accept any cheap optimism. But Zizek was too busy complaining about identity politics and his status within academia to try. In a similar way, the Alt-Right obsession with cultural Marxism expresses the rejection to confront that phenomenon they criticise as the attack of the cultural Marxist plot moral degradation, sexual promiscuity, consumerist hedonism, and so on are the outcomes of the immanent dynamic of capitalist societies. MeToo is all too often a genuine protest filtered through resentment. The wager of democracy is that we should not give all power to competent experts, because precisely Communists in power who, legitimise this rule, by posing as fake experts. [22], Der Spiegel concluded that iek won the debate clearly, describing Peterson as "vain enough to show up to an artillery charge with a pocket knife". Can a giant lobster analogy ever replace a sense of humour? So, how to react to this? what the debate ended up being. Zizek and Peterson went head-to-head recently at a debate in Toronto. Remove him from his enemies and he is a very poor example of a very old thing the type of writer whom, from Samuel Smiles Self-Help to Eckhart Tolles The Power of Now, have promised simple answers to complex problems. consist just in searching for happiness, no matter how much we spiritualise Secret Spice Girls dance parties of the wives of anti-western morality police. On April 19th, at the Sony Centre in Toronto, these two celebrated thinkers (and Big Think contributors) went head to head in a duel promisingly-dubbed Happiness: Capitalism vs. Marxism. The experience that we have of our lives from within, the story we tell ourselves about ourselves, in order to account for what we are doing is and this is what I call ideology fundamentally a lie. [1] They debated about the merits of regulated capitalism. One hated communism. So, a pessimist conclusion, what will happen? And Peterson agreed with him: It is not obvious to me that we can solve the problems that confront us. They are both self-described radical pessimists, about people and the world. I cleaned up the Zizek's second turn speaking, since that section seemed to contain many errors: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1qs7mNIUsYt9kWcdO785ec_dEWmEHLo92yTso0CVtxNk/edit?usp=sharing. Im far from a simple social constructionism here. Rules for Life, as if there were such things. They play the victim as much as their enemies. Zizek: The paradox to be happy there not a crucial misunderstanding here. Tonight, "philosopher" Slavoj iek will debate "psychologist" Jordan Peterson in Toronto, ostensibly on the subject of Capitalism vs. Marxism. Hegels motto Evil resides in the gaze which sees evil everywhere fully applies here. I've talked to (which, unfortunately were more fanboys than rigorous Peterson is his usual intensely-driven professorial self, which I personally Course Hero is not sponsored or endorsed by any college or university. [16][17] In a similar fashion, iek asked Peterson to name him personal names of "postmodern neo-Marxists" in Western academia and from where he got the statistical numbers because according to him the over-the-top political correctness is opposed to Marxism, to which Peterson replied that his references are aimed towards ideas that are connected with Marxism and postmodernism as a pheonomenon and not necessarily towards people defining themselves as such. Why do I still cling to this cursed name when I know and fully admit that the 20th century Communist project in all its failure, how it failed, giving birth to new forms of murderous terror. [16] Similarly to Winston Churchill, he concluded that "capitalism is the worst economic system, except for all the others". Jordan Peterson itching to take on Slavoj Zizek - 'any time, any place' -", "Slavoj Zizek vs. Jordan Peterson: Marxist gewinnt philosophenduell", "Happiness is watching a brawl between iconoclastic philosophers", "Has Jordan Peterson finally gone too far? However, this is not enough. Canadian bill prohibiting discrimination based on gender, "Jordan Peterson, Slavoj Zizek each draw fans at sold-out debate", "The 'debate of the century': what happened when Jordan Peterson debated Slavoj iek", "How Anti-Leftism Has Made Jordan Peterson a Mark for Fascist Propaganda", "There Is No One to Cheer for in the Potential Battle Between Jordan Peterson and Slavoj iek", "Why do people find Jordan Peterson so convincing? Both Zizek and Peterson transcend their titles, their disciplines, and the academy, just as this debate we hope will transcend purely economic questions by situating those in the frame of happiness of human flourishing itself. Life and career Early life iek was born in Ljubljana, PR Slovenia, Yugoslavia, into a middle-class family. Weeks before the debate began, I already saw many similarities between Zizek and Peterson, such as their views on struggle, their stance against political correctness, and the problem on ideology. authors with occasional bridges being thrown accross. essentially well-placed, but as many are quick to point out, We live in one and the same world which is more and more interconnected. The Master and His Emissary: A Conversation with Dr. Iain McGilchrist Transcript . Web november 12, 2022 advertisement the nigerian factcheckers . I was surprised (and a bit disappointed) that Peterson didn't seem more Warlords who rule provinces there are always dealing with Western companies, selling them minerals where would our computers be without coltan from Congo? his remarks, he starts telling a Slovenian joke, then after the first sentence Book deals for political prisoners still in jail. Transcript of Zizek vs. Peterson Discussing "Happiness, Capitalism vs. Marxism" April 23, 2019 April 25, 2019 Emily I present a transcript of the Zizek vs. Peterson discussion. And I also think this may be critical to some of you there is a problem with capitalism here for the simple reasons that its managers not because of their evil nature, but thats the logic of capitalism care to extend self-reproduction and environmental consequences are simply not part of the game. He is now a, Professor at the Institute of Sociology and Philosophy at the University of Ljubljana, and the Director of, the Birbeck Institute for the Humanities at the University of London. Copyright 2007-2023 & BIG THINK, BIG THINK PLUS, SMARTER FASTER trademarks owned by Freethink Media, Inc. All rights reserved. We will probably slide towards apocalypse, he said. wrote about commons before). Peterson was humiliated deeply in it, having to admit he'd never read any Marx despite demonizing him for years, and only having skimmed one of Marx' books before showing up to debate Marxism with an actual Marx scholar (among other. It's funny to see Peterson [2], Peterson has been seen as misusing the term postmodernism, referring to postmodern philosophy, as a stand-in term for the far-right and antisemitic Cultural Marxism conspiracy theory. Plus, the radical measures advocated by some ecologists can themselves trigger new catastrophes. Peterson's more practically-oriented style also made his arguments a bit more approachable to non-academics. Press J to jump to the feed. Zizek also pinpointed white liberal multiculturalism as the reason for the Lefts current political woes. You're currently offline; make sure to connect for latest articles. [9] Billed by some as "the debate of the century",[2] the event had more tickets scalped than the Toronto Maple LeafsBoston Bruins playoff on the same day, and tickets sold on eBay for over $300. Hundreds of millions raised from poverty into middle class existence. The past should be altered by the present as much as the present is directed by the past end of quote. If the academic left is all-powerful, they get to indulge in their victimization. [2][16] The monologue itself was less focused as it touched many topics and things like cultural liberalism, Nazism, Bernie Sanders, Donald Trump, Fyodor Dostoevsky, and xenophobia, among others;[2][15] and against the expectation of the debate format did not defend Marxism. It came right at the end of ieks opening 30-minute remarks. They returned to their natural subject: who is the enemy? Slavoj Zizek said that religion can make good people do horrible things. After writing less than nothing, zizek thought that he didn't yet get to the basic thought, that is the reason he wrote absolute recoil, a more difficult book than less than nothing, according. The controversial thinkers debated happiness, capitalism and Marxism in Toronto. If we learned anything from psychoanalysis, its that we humans are very creative in sabotaging our pursuit of happiness. iek & Peterson Debate . And is not the standard, but the true unconstrained consumption in all these creeps here? I will correct more when I get more time but I need to get back to work. I wanted to know that too! [15], At the beginning of his opening monologue, iek noted avoidance to participate in the debate in the role of an opponent and that both were victims of left liberals. It can well secretly invert the standard renunciation accomplished to benefit others. They are both concerned with more fundamental. Unfortunately, this brief moment of confrontation of their shared failure couldnt last. The second reaction is global capitalism with a human face think about socially responsible corporate figures like Bill Gates and George Soros. [2] He asserted that it is wrong to perceive history only through a lens of class struggle, there is no exclusively "good" proletariat and "bad" bourgeoisie, such identity politics is prone to authoritarian manipulation, and that in his view people do not climb the social hierarchies only by taking advantage of others. Or, they were making wine in the usual way, then something went wrong with fermentation and so they began to produce champagne and so on. As soon as jordan peterson announced he. All these antagonisms concern what Marx called commons the shared substance of our social being. should have replied to defend communism. Freedom and responsibility hurt they require an effort, and the highest function of an authentic master is to literally to awake in us to our freedom. Billed as "The Debate It is often claimed that true or not that religion makes some otherwise bad people do good things. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Aspen Ideas Festival: From the Barricades of the Culture Wars Transcript Transcripts 2018-09-25T15:05:00-04:00. For example, an example not from neo-conservatives. Credits for this section should go to the hard work of Xiao Ouyang and Shunji Ukai //, https://docs.google.com/document/d/1rUhYdqB2Jh7CU5Le0XgktKaoXQmnTdbv0-_kE5BQL6Q/edit?usp=sharing, Thank you so much for this, I had trouble understanding Zizek's pronunciation of the book on Christ's Atheism on the cross. already. First, a brief introductory remark. Last night, Jordan Peterson and Slavoj iek debated each other at the Sony Centre in Toronto. Let me mention the change enacted by Christianity. They can develop into a permanent obsession sustained by obstacles that demand to be overcome in short, into a properly metaphysical passion that preserves the biologically rhythm, like endlessly prolonging satisfaction in courtly love, engaging in different perversions and so on and so on. SLAVOJ IEK: . of the Century" was overhyped (overmarketed, really), and seemed poorly prepared Then once you factor in the notion that much of Marxism is . Maybe we should turn around a little bit Marxs famous thesis, in our new century we should say that maybe in the last century we tried all too fast to try the world. Marxism: Zizek/Peterson: Official Video Jordan B Peterson 6.5M subscribers Subscribe 86K 4.3M views 3 years ago I posted this yesterday, but the volume was too low, so now it's been raised.. Second yes, we should carry our burden and accept the suffering that goes with it. Thats the big of ideologies how to make good, decent people do horrible things. His father Joe iek was an economist and civil servant from the Some idea make a reappearance, other are newly developed, but it's Believers call him God the Father. But can God be called a man? from the University of Paris VIII. First, since we live in a modern era, we cannot simply refer to an unquestionable authority to confer a mission or task on us. [Scattered Audience applause and cheers]Both Doctor iek and Peterson transcend their titles, their disciplines, and the academy, just as this debatewe hopewill transcend purely economic questions by situating those in the frame
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